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	<title>Comments on: Who Knows What Is Going On In Honduras</title>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/2009/07/05/who-knows-what-is-going-on-in-honduras/comment-page-1/#comment-50002</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 22:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/?p=6691#comment-50002</guid>
		<description>Our daughter and grandson are headed from Nicaragua to San Pedro Sula to visit my grandson&#039;s father&#039;s family.  Not the best time to have scheduled that, I&#039;m sure, but her time was limited.  I&#039;m hoping to get some word on the feeling of that part of the country soon.  Gringa, if you have any thoughts or any considerations I might pass on to her, I would appreciate hearing them.  Thanks for your voice of reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our daughter and grandson are headed from Nicaragua to San Pedro Sula to visit my grandson&#8217;s father&#8217;s family.  Not the best time to have scheduled that, I&#8217;m sure, but her time was limited.  I&#8217;m hoping to get some word on the feeling of that part of the country soon.  Gringa, if you have any thoughts or any considerations I might pass on to her, I would appreciate hearing them.  Thanks for your voice of reason.</p>
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		<title>By: La Gringa</title>
		<link>http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/2009/07/05/who-knows-what-is-going-on-in-honduras/comment-page-1/#comment-49995</link>
		<dc:creator>La Gringa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 01:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/?p=6691#comment-49995</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the words of confidence in me and my blogicito. ;-) I wanted to respond to a few things here.

First of all, there are at least two versions of the Honduran constitution on the internet which are outdated and do not include all of the revisions. I have a copy in a booklet form which details all of the revisions, including some which were proposed but never ratified.

There is no provision for impeachment.  -- the impeachment clause was not ratified in a 2003 change to the constitution. No doubt there is some story of corruption behind that, but the fact is, there is no impeachment clause in the Honduran constitution. There is a provision for a sort of vote of no confidence, which the congress did on June 3, with no effect on Zelaya&#039;s actions.

The military were never in charge of Honduras, not for 5 minutes. They were acting under orders from the Supreme Court, as allowed (and required) by the constitution, article 306. My only guess as to why the police were not used is due to the corruption in the police department. 

Article 274 allows use of the military in many areas, including cooperation with police. Zelaya himself ordered the use of the military just a few months ago to combat crime and make arrests. 

Zelaya was following exactly in the footsteps of Chavez, dividing the population, promising to share the wealth, promising citizens that they would be governing, and even made comments that this constitutional assembly would be governing Honduras, ie. instead of the congress. He also made statements about removing the Supreme Court because it didn&#039;t work. If you have hours to watch videos of Zelaya and Chavez, you&#039;ll see Zelaya following the Chavez plan step by step, including trying to control the media. Now Ortega has announced that he, too, wants to change the constitution.

This constitutional change promoted by all 3 of them (I&#039;ve watched the videos) is always announced as an opportunity for citizens to kick out elected officials (or judges) that they don&#039;t like. As we know in Venezuela, that isn&#039;t the real purpose. Ironi

The &quot;poll&quot; was completely rigged with Zelaya being charge without any oversight every step of the way. A vote tallying computer center was found and guess what? The votes had already been counted for an election that never occurred! I&#039;m sure that he would have appointed his cronies to the constitutional assembly and as a result, citizens would not really have had a voice.

Honduras has been living under self-imposed curfews for years due to the high rate of violent crime. The pro-Zelaya supporters have been acting like terrorists in this country. That is the only reason for the curfew. I heard today that it was canceled. You won&#039;t find many people on the streets after midnight in Honduras. It&#039;s just too dangerous. The average law-abiding person in Honduras thinks that the government should be taking more action against these terrorists who are severely restricting the civil rights of citizens to go to work or school! They are the ones repressing people, not the military.

I don&#039;t believe that the media is being suppressed. The government may have stopped reporting on that Sunday morning, but since then, I don&#039;t think so. There are a couple of radio and TV stations and newspapers that are strongly &quot;anti-coup&quot; and in fact promote insurrection and make false reports every single day trying to get people riled up.

Being here in Honduras, I&#039;m getting a much different picture than I see on CNN! I see Hondurans feeling empowered, something that would have never happened without this. My hope is that citizen demands for prosecution of corruption will continue,that citizen involvement will stay strong and that Honduras will become a better place for Hondurans.


Despite what you might think from watching the news, this crisis did not start on June 28. All of the various segments of government (Election Tribunal, Fiscal, lower court, Congress, and Supreme Court) had been trying to stop Zelaya from his illegal actions since March. He would not be stopped! 

The way they handled Sunday morning was sloppy, no doubt about that. But if there should be any legal action for the *manner* in which he was removed, that is what the world should be looking at, not forcing the return of a corrupt, thieving, drug-connected, mentally unbalanced man to a seat of power in a country who does not want him.

Sorry for writing a book here. I know it is easy to disregard what I say -- because who am I compared to CNN or the NY Times? Nobody. The difference is that I&#039;m here in Honduras, I&#039;m married to a Honduran, I have 100s of contacts all over Honduras, and I see the news everyday. Many of my contacts are with NGOs who work with the poorest of Hondurans. They have no reason to side with the government except that they also believe that it is a step in the right direction for all Hondurans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the words of confidence in me and my blogicito. <img src='http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  I wanted to respond to a few things here.</p>
<p>First of all, there are at least two versions of the Honduran constitution on the internet which are outdated and do not include all of the revisions. I have a copy in a booklet form which details all of the revisions, including some which were proposed but never ratified.</p>
<p>There is no provision for impeachment.  &#8212; the impeachment clause was not ratified in a 2003 change to the constitution. No doubt there is some story of corruption behind that, but the fact is, there is no impeachment clause in the Honduran constitution. There is a provision for a sort of vote of no confidence, which the congress did on June 3, with no effect on Zelaya&#8217;s actions.</p>
<p>The military were never in charge of Honduras, not for 5 minutes. They were acting under orders from the Supreme Court, as allowed (and required) by the constitution, article 306. My only guess as to why the police were not used is due to the corruption in the police department. </p>
<p>Article 274 allows use of the military in many areas, including cooperation with police. Zelaya himself ordered the use of the military just a few months ago to combat crime and make arrests. </p>
<p>Zelaya was following exactly in the footsteps of Chavez, dividing the population, promising to share the wealth, promising citizens that they would be governing, and even made comments that this constitutional assembly would be governing Honduras, ie. instead of the congress. He also made statements about removing the Supreme Court because it didn&#8217;t work. If you have hours to watch videos of Zelaya and Chavez, you&#8217;ll see Zelaya following the Chavez plan step by step, including trying to control the media. Now Ortega has announced that he, too, wants to change the constitution.</p>
<p>This constitutional change promoted by all 3 of them (I&#8217;ve watched the videos) is always announced as an opportunity for citizens to kick out elected officials (or judges) that they don&#8217;t like. As we know in Venezuela, that isn&#8217;t the real purpose. Ironi</p>
<p>The &#8220;poll&#8221; was completely rigged with Zelaya being charge without any oversight every step of the way. A vote tallying computer center was found and guess what? The votes had already been counted for an election that never occurred! I&#8217;m sure that he would have appointed his cronies to the constitutional assembly and as a result, citizens would not really have had a voice.</p>
<p>Honduras has been living under self-imposed curfews for years due to the high rate of violent crime. The pro-Zelaya supporters have been acting like terrorists in this country. That is the only reason for the curfew. I heard today that it was canceled. You won&#8217;t find many people on the streets after midnight in Honduras. It&#8217;s just too dangerous. The average law-abiding person in Honduras thinks that the government should be taking more action against these terrorists who are severely restricting the civil rights of citizens to go to work or school! They are the ones repressing people, not the military.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that the media is being suppressed. The government may have stopped reporting on that Sunday morning, but since then, I don&#8217;t think so. There are a couple of radio and TV stations and newspapers that are strongly &#8220;anti-coup&#8221; and in fact promote insurrection and make false reports every single day trying to get people riled up.</p>
<p>Being here in Honduras, I&#8217;m getting a much different picture than I see on CNN! I see Hondurans feeling empowered, something that would have never happened without this. My hope is that citizen demands for prosecution of corruption will continue,that citizen involvement will stay strong and that Honduras will become a better place for Hondurans.</p>
<p>Despite what you might think from watching the news, this crisis did not start on June 28. All of the various segments of government (Election Tribunal, Fiscal, lower court, Congress, and Supreme Court) had been trying to stop Zelaya from his illegal actions since March. He would not be stopped! </p>
<p>The way they handled Sunday morning was sloppy, no doubt about that. But if there should be any legal action for the *manner* in which he was removed, that is what the world should be looking at, not forcing the return of a corrupt, thieving, drug-connected, mentally unbalanced man to a seat of power in a country who does not want him.</p>
<p>Sorry for writing a book here. I know it is easy to disregard what I say &#8212; because who am I compared to CNN or the NY Times? Nobody. The difference is that I&#8217;m here in Honduras, I&#8217;m married to a Honduran, I have 100s of contacts all over Honduras, and I see the news everyday. Many of my contacts are with NGOs who work with the poorest of Hondurans. They have no reason to side with the government except that they also believe that it is a step in the right direction for all Hondurans.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Webster</title>
		<link>http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/2009/07/05/who-knows-what-is-going-on-in-honduras/comment-page-1/#comment-49994</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Webster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/?p=6691#comment-49994</guid>
		<description>Like many things I think the truth regarding the situation in Honduras is a bit in the grey area.
  Zelaya  certainly had many  in the country against his administration,but what is disturbing is the reaction to a non binding referendum on whether to form a constituent assembly to study  reforming  the constitution .Any changes then would still have had to have gotten 2/3 majority in congress to pass into law which never would have happened. 
   Much has been written about how there is no impeachment process in Honduras but there actually is and it starts in congress .No constitution would call for military action in removing the president.Zelaya apparently broke the law regarding advocating a change in the constitution regarding term limits ,but he was calling for a referendum on  the formation of a constituent assembly  to study making  changes so legally he might not actually have broken any laws and I think this is why it was easier to just throw him out then try to impeach him.
    Unfortunately I don&#039;t see any silver lining for Honduras as many on La Gringa&#039;s blog see.I think really it is a power struggle between two factions that are equally disinterested in what is best for the Honduran people and they are all corrupt
    But in the end the damage Roberto Micheletti and company have done to the country could be far worse then what Zelaya had in mind and in the end the coup wasn&#039;t so much about Zelaya as it was about crushing ideas.I think they saw a referendum as a dangerous precedent ,the idea that Honduran people could actually have a say in how their country is governed didn&#039;t sit well with those in control of the country.Maybe not the only country but now the world knows there is no real democracy in Honduras.As much as it is a good thing zelaya is gone Honduras is not going in the right direction either and I can see it getting more authoritarian .
   Weeks of curfews and media control ,harassment of Zelaya supporters and who knows what else is not a great start and how about a government that relies almost completely on International welfare  being isolated  from much of the world.
   How is Panama these days? I might just be ready to move my family out ,but might not be easy unloading my property for a decent price.and I guess I can thank all of those A holes for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like many things I think the truth regarding the situation in Honduras is a bit in the grey area.<br />
  Zelaya  certainly had many  in the country against his administration,but what is disturbing is the reaction to a non binding referendum on whether to form a constituent assembly to study  reforming  the constitution .Any changes then would still have had to have gotten 2/3 majority in congress to pass into law which never would have happened.<br />
   Much has been written about how there is no impeachment process in Honduras but there actually is and it starts in congress .No constitution would call for military action in removing the president.Zelaya apparently broke the law regarding advocating a change in the constitution regarding term limits ,but he was calling for a referendum on  the formation of a constituent assembly  to study making  changes so legally he might not actually have broken any laws and I think this is why it was easier to just throw him out then try to impeach him.<br />
    Unfortunately I don&#8217;t see any silver lining for Honduras as many on La Gringa&#8217;s blog see.I think really it is a power struggle between two factions that are equally disinterested in what is best for the Honduran people and they are all corrupt<br />
    But in the end the damage Roberto Micheletti and company have done to the country could be far worse then what Zelaya had in mind and in the end the coup wasn&#8217;t so much about Zelaya as it was about crushing ideas.I think they saw a referendum as a dangerous precedent ,the idea that Honduran people could actually have a say in how their country is governed didn&#8217;t sit well with those in control of the country.Maybe not the only country but now the world knows there is no real democracy in Honduras.As much as it is a good thing zelaya is gone Honduras is not going in the right direction either and I can see it getting more authoritarian .<br />
   Weeks of curfews and media control ,harassment of Zelaya supporters and who knows what else is not a great start and how about a government that relies almost completely on International welfare  being isolated  from much of the world.<br />
   How is Panama these days? I might just be ready to move my family out ,but might not be easy unloading my property for a decent price.and I guess I can thank all of those A holes for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/2009/07/05/who-knows-what-is-going-on-in-honduras/comment-page-1/#comment-49664</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/?p=6691#comment-49664</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a 21 July 2009 article from Bloomberg:
Senator Blocks Obama Diplomat Nominee Over Honduras 
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&amp;sid=admFvdOL9YY4</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a 21 July 2009 article from Bloomberg:<br />
Senator Blocks Obama Diplomat Nominee Over Honduras<br />
<a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&amp;sid=admFvdOL9YY4" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&amp;sid=admFvdOL9YY4</a></p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/2009/07/05/who-knows-what-is-going-on-in-honduras/comment-page-1/#comment-49438</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 02:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/?p=6691#comment-49438</guid>
		<description>The LA Times article concluded:  &quot;Honduras continues fully to operate in accordance with law.&quot;   It appears that President Martinelli (from other news reports) quickly concluded that Honduras was operating according to their rule of law.  Hopefully, the OAS will come to the same conclusion.  As suggested by DR above, &quot;...Zelaya is trying to set himself up as another democratically elected dictator, like his mentor Chavez.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The LA Times article concluded:  &#8220;Honduras continues fully to operate in accordance with law.&#8221;   It appears that President Martinelli (from other news reports) quickly concluded that Honduras was operating according to their rule of law.  Hopefully, the OAS will come to the same conclusion.  As suggested by DR above, &#8220;&#8230;Zelaya is trying to set himself up as another democratically elected dictator, like his mentor Chavez.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Gordo</title>
		<link>http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/2009/07/05/who-knows-what-is-going-on-in-honduras/comment-page-1/#comment-49436</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/?p=6691#comment-49436</guid>
		<description>Hi Jaime,
Joyce, another faithful follower of both this blog &amp; La Gringa, has a link to this op-ed in the LA Times - it appears that the word is getting out to the mainstream press:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-estrada10-2009jul10,0,4262300.story

Also, be sure not to miss the wonderful video posted on La Gringa&#039;s site today, Defending Democracy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da9etL5uqy8&amp;feature=player_embedded</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jaime,<br />
Joyce, another faithful follower of both this blog &amp; La Gringa, has a link to this op-ed in the LA Times &#8211; it appears that the word is getting out to the mainstream press:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-estrada10-2009jul10,0,4262300.story" rel="nofollow">http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-estrada10-2009jul10,0,4262300.story</a></p>
<p>Also, be sure not to miss the wonderful video posted on La Gringa&#8217;s site today, Defending Democracy:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da9etL5uqy8&amp;feature=player_embedded" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da9etL5uqy8&amp;feature=player_embedded</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jaime</title>
		<link>http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/2009/07/05/who-knows-what-is-going-on-in-honduras/comment-page-1/#comment-49415</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/?p=6691#comment-49415</guid>
		<description>Gordo:
Thanks for the very informative video. We should sent this to President Obama. I read in the panamanian press that the new President of Panama, Mr Martinelli, was asking to other countries (US maybe) to let Honduras resolve this problem on its own. Very good for him, he has the b..... (fill in the blank)  to say this which does not go whith what Chavez, Ortega and Castro would have preferred him to say. 
Jaime^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordo:<br />
Thanks for the very informative video. We should sent this to President Obama. I read in the panamanian press that the new President of Panama, Mr Martinelli, was asking to other countries (US maybe) to let Honduras resolve this problem on its own. Very good for him, he has the b&#8230;.. (fill in the blank)  to say this which does not go whith what Chavez, Ortega and Castro would have preferred him to say.<br />
Jaime^</p>
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		<title>By: Gordo</title>
		<link>http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/2009/07/05/who-knows-what-is-going-on-in-honduras/comment-page-1/#comment-49389</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/?p=6691#comment-49389</guid>
		<description>Here is a video explaining the government position on this, though not without a little spin of it&#039;s own:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maMA3PTYoZE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a video explaining the government position on this, though not without a little spin of it&#8217;s own:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maMA3PTYoZE" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maMA3PTYoZE</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jaime</title>
		<link>http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/2009/07/05/who-knows-what-is-going-on-in-honduras/comment-page-1/#comment-49388</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/?p=6691#comment-49388</guid>
		<description>Don Ray:
You are right again my friend. I read some of the blogs form Honduras and even the transcript of the Congress and Supreme Court resolution explaining the reasons why he needed to be removed from Power. It can not be more clear. Come on...Zelaya was even returning to Honduras on a Venezuelan airplane and landed in Nicaragua after (Chavez, Ortega). Maybe he was elected by the people of Honduras, but if your power goes to your head and start acting without control, it is time for you to go. You are a dictator now. Maybe Chavez is next. 
Jaime^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don Ray:<br />
You are right again my friend. I read some of the blogs form Honduras and even the transcript of the Congress and Supreme Court resolution explaining the reasons why he needed to be removed from Power. It can not be more clear. Come on&#8230;Zelaya was even returning to Honduras on a Venezuelan airplane and landed in Nicaragua after (Chavez, Ortega). Maybe he was elected by the people of Honduras, but if your power goes to your head and start acting without control, it is time for you to go. You are a dictator now. Maybe Chavez is next.<br />
Jaime^</p>
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		<title>By: Don Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/2009/07/05/who-knows-what-is-going-on-in-honduras/comment-page-1/#comment-49385</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chiriquichatter.net/blog/?p=6691#comment-49385</guid>
		<description>Hi Tom. While I don&#039;t think everything was well handled, my opinion is that this was not a military operation, but a military executing orders by they real representatives of the Honduran people. In today&#039;s world I am not sure that you don&#039;t get a clearer picture by reading what those that are living in the situation are seeing. 

It looks, to me, like Zelaya is trying to set himself up as another democratically elected dictator, like his mentor Chevez. For once a Latin American country has stood up and said enough. As I said, I tend to believe the bloggers that I have found to be fair in their reporting in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tom. While I don&#8217;t think everything was well handled, my opinion is that this was not a military operation, but a military executing orders by they real representatives of the Honduran people. In today&#8217;s world I am not sure that you don&#8217;t get a clearer picture by reading what those that are living in the situation are seeing. </p>
<p>It looks, to me, like Zelaya is trying to set himself up as another democratically elected dictator, like his mentor Chevez. For once a Latin American country has stood up and said enough. As I said, I tend to believe the bloggers that I have found to be fair in their reporting in the past.</p>
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