Jul 05
Who Knows What Is Going On In Honduras
If you listen to the news, you hear a lot about the current situation in Honduras. Probably the most interesting perspective on what is happening is coming from a fellow blogger in Honduras called La Gringa.
You might like to check out her blog La Gringa’s Blogcito. It will make you question all that you are hearing on CNN Español.
21 responses so far Panama Journal
Don,
I have a friend in the Honduras, that will not speak out, but tells me that the majority of the people do not want anything to do with Zelaya as they know he was/is a puppet to Chavez, Castro, and the rest of the influence of those that would keep the people ‘ruled’, and allow them to keep the drug trade so very easy to contain, with little enforcement against them. I hope the Honduran people, as well as the rest of the world will stand up against this. Although a puppet of the US for years, finally they got Noriega out…Hopefully someone can straighten out some of the other Central and South Ameican countries.
It seems from the beginning the so call Military coup was not. What I know is the Honduran Supreme Court found the President (Zelaya) was doing things illegal and against the Constitution (related to wanting to change the Constitution, although Hondurans had voted against) to continue in Power, so they asked the Military to remove him from Power. Here in US, President Obama be so forceful when demanding that Honduras place Zelaya back in power, but was very quiet and refused to take sides when the Iranians were beating and killed by (like Jay Leno says) “IamNutJob”, the Iranian President.
Go figure…
Jaime^
Hi Dougie and Jamie. I tend to believe what La Gringa has written and reports. I have read her her blog for several years and found her to be very factual and have the best interests of Honduras at heart.
If Chevez is speaking out for democracy, then you have to know that something is wrong with that picture.
Here is another blog from Honduras that is in Spanish. http://lahondurasposible.blogspot.com/
Don,
I am not sure if what I wrote was taken wrong or not. I have read what La Gringa has written, and believe her to be honest. I do not think she is on the side of Zelaya, and hopes the new Government will finally hold people accountable for crimes against the country. I was simply stating that the Hondurans are being forced heavily by people like Chavez. Hopefully, the new Govt. will keep people like him from controlling their future.
Doug
Hi Dougie. No, I didn’t think you meant otherwise. Thanks for commenting.
There is just an amazing amount of spin being delivered to ALL the news
stories, press releases, etc coming out of or dealing with Honduras.
The only thing that *most* sources seem to agree on (surprisingly
enough) is the sequence of events including the judicial and
legislative moves to oust Zelaya.
Regardless of what is right or wrong in this situation, I have almost
never seen such rabid spin from the media as I am seeing now.
Even the coverage of Iran is far more balanced.
Amazing…
From another blogger. http://hondurassituation.blogspot.com/
To Mike:
We have to go back to 1989 and the Invasion of Panama to see serious spinning done to the true. The causes to invade, the numbers of people dead, etc. But “eso es harina de otro costal” (that’s flour of another sac), meaning another story. Let me clarify, I hate Noriega, but the distorsion US did to the news were worhty of a OSCAR for best acting. Believe me I was there.
God help Honduras and their stand alone for freedom…
Jaime^
Hi Don Ray, as you know I too have been a long-time follower of La Gringa’s blog, and like you, I tend to believe what she has to say. As Mike has stated, there seems to be an incredible amount of “spin” surrounding this story. The impression I get is that the most reliable reporting going on is being done by the bloggers who actually live in Honduras. My hope is that Hondurans will be able to come to a peaceful solution to this situation on their own.
Jamie and Gordo. There will always be media spin, usually caused by governmental biases. The good news is that the Internet has made it tougher to hide the truth.
Now, let me get this straight folks. You approve of the Honduran military ousting the democratically elected president?
In addition I would ask: why do you think that Secretary of State Clinton would try to have the international media “spin” the news to support the position of almost all international authorities that the overthrow was illegal? It seems to me that if the media did the opposite, then that would be “spin.”
As Churchill said, “Democracy is the worse form of government except for all the others.”
Hi Tom. While I don’t think everything was well handled, my opinion is that this was not a military operation, but a military executing orders by they real representatives of the Honduran people. In today’s world I am not sure that you don’t get a clearer picture by reading what those that are living in the situation are seeing.
It looks, to me, like Zelaya is trying to set himself up as another democratically elected dictator, like his mentor Chevez. For once a Latin American country has stood up and said enough. As I said, I tend to believe the bloggers that I have found to be fair in their reporting in the past.
Don Ray:
You are right again my friend. I read some of the blogs form Honduras and even the transcript of the Congress and Supreme Court resolution explaining the reasons why he needed to be removed from Power. It can not be more clear. Come on…Zelaya was even returning to Honduras on a Venezuelan airplane and landed in Nicaragua after (Chavez, Ortega). Maybe he was elected by the people of Honduras, but if your power goes to your head and start acting without control, it is time for you to go. You are a dictator now. Maybe Chavez is next.
Jaime^
Here is a video explaining the government position on this, though not without a little spin of it’s own:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maMA3PTYoZE
Gordo:
Thanks for the very informative video. We should sent this to President Obama. I read in the panamanian press that the new President of Panama, Mr Martinelli, was asking to other countries (US maybe) to let Honduras resolve this problem on its own. Very good for him, he has the b….. (fill in the blank) to say this which does not go whith what Chavez, Ortega and Castro would have preferred him to say.
Jaime^
Hi Jaime,
Joyce, another faithful follower of both this blog & La Gringa, has a link to this op-ed in the LA Times – it appears that the word is getting out to the mainstream press:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-estrada10-2009jul10,0,4262300.story
Also, be sure not to miss the wonderful video posted on La Gringa’s site today, Defending Democracy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da9etL5uqy8&feature=player_embedded
The LA Times article concluded: “Honduras continues fully to operate in accordance with law.” It appears that President Martinelli (from other news reports) quickly concluded that Honduras was operating according to their rule of law. Hopefully, the OAS will come to the same conclusion. As suggested by DR above, “…Zelaya is trying to set himself up as another democratically elected dictator, like his mentor Chavez.”
Here’s a 21 July 2009 article from Bloomberg:
Senator Blocks Obama Diplomat Nominee Over Honduras
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=admFvdOL9YY4
Like many things I think the truth regarding the situation in Honduras is a bit in the grey area.
Zelaya certainly had many in the country against his administration,but what is disturbing is the reaction to a non binding referendum on whether to form a constituent assembly to study reforming the constitution .Any changes then would still have had to have gotten 2/3 majority in congress to pass into law which never would have happened.
Much has been written about how there is no impeachment process in Honduras but there actually is and it starts in congress .No constitution would call for military action in removing the president.Zelaya apparently broke the law regarding advocating a change in the constitution regarding term limits ,but he was calling for a referendum on the formation of a constituent assembly to study making changes so legally he might not actually have broken any laws and I think this is why it was easier to just throw him out then try to impeach him.
Unfortunately I don’t see any silver lining for Honduras as many on La Gringa’s blog see.I think really it is a power struggle between two factions that are equally disinterested in what is best for the Honduran people and they are all corrupt
But in the end the damage Roberto Micheletti and company have done to the country could be far worse then what Zelaya had in mind and in the end the coup wasn’t so much about Zelaya as it was about crushing ideas.I think they saw a referendum as a dangerous precedent ,the idea that Honduran people could actually have a say in how their country is governed didn’t sit well with those in control of the country.Maybe not the only country but now the world knows there is no real democracy in Honduras.As much as it is a good thing zelaya is gone Honduras is not going in the right direction either and I can see it getting more authoritarian .
Weeks of curfews and media control ,harassment of Zelaya supporters and who knows what else is not a great start and how about a government that relies almost completely on International welfare being isolated from much of the world.
How is Panama these days? I might just be ready to move my family out ,but might not be easy unloading my property for a decent price.and I guess I can thank all of those A holes for that.
Thanks for the words of confidence in me and my blogicito.
I wanted to respond to a few things here.
First of all, there are at least two versions of the Honduran constitution on the internet which are outdated and do not include all of the revisions. I have a copy in a booklet form which details all of the revisions, including some which were proposed but never ratified.
There is no provision for impeachment. — the impeachment clause was not ratified in a 2003 change to the constitution. No doubt there is some story of corruption behind that, but the fact is, there is no impeachment clause in the Honduran constitution. There is a provision for a sort of vote of no confidence, which the congress did on June 3, with no effect on Zelaya’s actions.
The military were never in charge of Honduras, not for 5 minutes. They were acting under orders from the Supreme Court, as allowed (and required) by the constitution, article 306. My only guess as to why the police were not used is due to the corruption in the police department.
Article 274 allows use of the military in many areas, including cooperation with police. Zelaya himself ordered the use of the military just a few months ago to combat crime and make arrests.
Zelaya was following exactly in the footsteps of Chavez, dividing the population, promising to share the wealth, promising citizens that they would be governing, and even made comments that this constitutional assembly would be governing Honduras, ie. instead of the congress. He also made statements about removing the Supreme Court because it didn’t work. If you have hours to watch videos of Zelaya and Chavez, you’ll see Zelaya following the Chavez plan step by step, including trying to control the media. Now Ortega has announced that he, too, wants to change the constitution.
This constitutional change promoted by all 3 of them (I’ve watched the videos) is always announced as an opportunity for citizens to kick out elected officials (or judges) that they don’t like. As we know in Venezuela, that isn’t the real purpose. Ironi
The “poll” was completely rigged with Zelaya being charge without any oversight every step of the way. A vote tallying computer center was found and guess what? The votes had already been counted for an election that never occurred! I’m sure that he would have appointed his cronies to the constitutional assembly and as a result, citizens would not really have had a voice.
Honduras has been living under self-imposed curfews for years due to the high rate of violent crime. The pro-Zelaya supporters have been acting like terrorists in this country. That is the only reason for the curfew. I heard today that it was canceled. You won’t find many people on the streets after midnight in Honduras. It’s just too dangerous. The average law-abiding person in Honduras thinks that the government should be taking more action against these terrorists who are severely restricting the civil rights of citizens to go to work or school! They are the ones repressing people, not the military.
I don’t believe that the media is being suppressed. The government may have stopped reporting on that Sunday morning, but since then, I don’t think so. There are a couple of radio and TV stations and newspapers that are strongly “anti-coup” and in fact promote insurrection and make false reports every single day trying to get people riled up.
Being here in Honduras, I’m getting a much different picture than I see on CNN! I see Hondurans feeling empowered, something that would have never happened without this. My hope is that citizen demands for prosecution of corruption will continue,that citizen involvement will stay strong and that Honduras will become a better place for Hondurans.
Despite what you might think from watching the news, this crisis did not start on June 28. All of the various segments of government (Election Tribunal, Fiscal, lower court, Congress, and Supreme Court) had been trying to stop Zelaya from his illegal actions since March. He would not be stopped!
The way they handled Sunday morning was sloppy, no doubt about that. But if there should be any legal action for the *manner* in which he was removed, that is what the world should be looking at, not forcing the return of a corrupt, thieving, drug-connected, mentally unbalanced man to a seat of power in a country who does not want him.
Sorry for writing a book here. I know it is easy to disregard what I say — because who am I compared to CNN or the NY Times? Nobody. The difference is that I’m here in Honduras, I’m married to a Honduran, I have 100s of contacts all over Honduras, and I see the news everyday. Many of my contacts are with NGOs who work with the poorest of Hondurans. They have no reason to side with the government except that they also believe that it is a step in the right direction for all Hondurans.
Our daughter and grandson are headed from Nicaragua to San Pedro Sula to visit my grandson’s father’s family. Not the best time to have scheduled that, I’m sure, but her time was limited. I’m hoping to get some word on the feeling of that part of the country soon. Gringa, if you have any thoughts or any considerations I might pass on to her, I would appreciate hearing them. Thanks for your voice of reason.