Yahoo Whining
Dec 13th, 2007 by Don Ray
There is a current thread running, in the Yahoo groups, saying that Copa is no longer giving discounts to gringos that are below the retirement age, even though they have the pensionado card. I am trying to find out if this is true or only a rumor. I have heard that the purchase requirements may have changed to requiring an age of 55 for women and 57 for men, but in the next few days I will find out for sure.
Whether the law has changed or not and whether the airlines are only giving discounts with proof of age is not important to this post. What is important is that gringos that want to whine about everything, would provide a blessing to everyone, if they would just leave Panama or better yet, never come to Panama in the first place.
I have repeatedly written that if you are thinking about moving to or retiring in Panama, then you should set your expectations appropriately. You wouldn’t buy a pair of shoes with out walking in them first. The same should be true when moving to a foreign country. Live in Panama and understand the people, the culture the good and the bad before you move.
If you have done these things and decided to move, remember that you have no say (vote) in how the country is run or how the laws are administered or changed. Moving to Panama just because it has pensionado discounts would be fool hardy. Move to Panama because you like the people. Move because you want to have Panamanian friends. Move because you like the constant climate. Move because you don’t want to live with snow and ice storms or hurricanes. Move because an occasional earthquake is not going to upset you.
Don’t move and bitch at every little thing that is different than you think it should be or every little thing that changes after you get here. Assume that nothing is forever. If you want guarantees that it will always be like the fairytale brochures, that motivate gringos with more money than brains to move to Panama, then you are a fool.
The only thing that is certain is change and that is happening all over the world. I moved to Panama in 2003. I have seen a large amount of change. The majority of change that I don’t like has not been caused by the Panamanians, but by gringos wanting to impose their values and wishes on their new host country.
UPDATE: I received conformation that the age of 57 for women and 60 for men is required. Thanks to Viajes Crisol for verifying that for me.
Don,
AMEN! Couldn’t have said it better myself. My wife and I have been here since 2001 and the ONLY negative thing we have encountered is the influx of Gringos and their imposing attitudes! We LOVE your blog - keep up the great work. Happy Holidays to you and yours.
Just to put this in context, the man instigating the whining is, to put it politely, “problematic” and in recent months has been posting as a woman under several false IDs for reasons that defy obvious explanaition.
I haven’t tried to follow all the responses on this, but several people have been taking him to task and I haven’t seen any groundswell of support for him or his claims.
One point has been made that I think deserves some thought; namely that all these “pensionado” style discounts given to non-citizens may one day be suspended or reduced. IMHO I think that is quite likely to occur at some point.
I’m very glad that they currently exist and I take reasonable advantage of them whenever “real” money is involved such as on medications or, ahem, air travel, but we didn’t move here because of them. Heck, with a 30 year old apartment, I even pay property taxes since there is no 20 year exemption for me.
If they all went away, we might have to trim back a bit on our travel expenses, but otherwise life would just go on.
Frankly, I’m more worried about the falling dollar driving the price of everything up than loosing an occasional $10 saving on dinner out.
But that’s just me. Others’ mileage may differ.
Mike
I enjoy looking at the Yahoo Groups, but there is a lot of whining that goes on. We are planning to move to Panama and hope the pensionado benefits continue, but if not, we will just adjust to whatever situation takes place. People are losing benefits wherever they are.
My wife used to get great medical benefits, even working part-time. Then they cut those back to a policy clearly labeled “not health insurance”. Then they cut back on paid holidays. You lose benefits WHEREVER you live. Why should it be different in Panama?
Don RAY:
Well done! Born and raised in Panama (now I live in CA) I understand how may latinos see americans the way you describe it, wanting to impose their way on the rest of the world. Who says the american way is the ONLY way? You are living in Panama, a third World country with a lot of problems. Many are people are poor and earn in one month what many earn in US in one day or one week. Despite all that the majority of them are happy! Because they do not know any different, most likely. So, if their way of life makes them happy, who says that the way America wants to impose it is better or will make them happier? You are a great example of adaptation (in Rome, do what romans do), you integrated to the culture and the people taking the good and the bad, you even learn some Spanish (unheard of in the old Canal Zone residents). I wish more americans will do it this way when they live abroad and not try to impose their ways. Heck… many do not even bother learning the language and think the locals should learn English!
Keep up the good work. Great blog.
Jaime
Bob, Mike, Wally and Jaime - Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Hey Don!
You can get your Gringo discounts in Panama.. It’s Easy!! Get this.. I visited Panama with my beautiful wife last weekend. We visited some friends and had a generally good time except for the weather which was kind of cool/cloudy up by Paso Ancho ..but we shopped at PriceSmart and managed to stock up with a bunch of stuff including cheap(er) liquor and a few items for friends here in CR..
Anyhow, LOW & Behold! We ate at the Bambito and had some tasty filet minons ..I think I had a Balboa too..yes! Anyhow, the waiter was kind enough to give my wife & I the Gringo discount even though we have no Panama Cedulas! (And are substantially younger than 95% of the pensionado Gringo crowd). Our hosts are residents and, of course, got their 25%. Then I visited a pharmacy to fill a script. The pharmacist presented me with said prescription, quoted the going price and then proceeded to grant me a 12% discount!! All this with just being nice & decent (mostly) with the local folk. No questions about cedulas at all! I love visiting Panama and saving a few USPesos.
Then we checked out & back in @ Canoas and the CR Aduana waved us on with no customs hassles & no impuestos! See you in a few months for more fun and cedula-less descuentos!
PURA VIDA!!
My experience in the States was that you had to be (or look like) a certain age to get a Senior discount for rooms, travel etc. BTW, I am flying COPA from Quito to DC for $575, a price I got on the internet. Of course the hours are weird (lv at 1600 and arrive at 2345 with a one hour layover in Panama) but the price is right - especially for 10 days at Christmas time. And they sell real Irish whiskey at the tax free stores!
I have heard the whining at many points of the globe. I think it does us a lot of harm. It makes us look like petulant children stamping our feet for a candy bar before dinner.
Personally, I’m retiring to Panama for the skiing on snow covered slopes. I’ve given the Panamians two years to get it straight - or woe betide them!
“I’ve given the Panamians two years to get it straight - or woe betide them!”
That is your mistake. In Panama, we never get it straight. You should have said you wanted water skiing. Then snow skiing would be the likely result.
Henry
don,
this totally unrelated but wanted to tell you about a new restraunt.
don’t know if you get to panama city much but they have a new “tx-mex” restraunt called mrs.mendosas kitchen near the allbrook mall across from el rey. they have been advertising alot on one of the english language stations. its a miami chain that started in ‘87 and that should have sent up warrning flags but i’ve been “jonesin” for some cheese enchillads, rice and beans so i had to go.
well to my disapointment they didn’t even have enchillads on the menu, and their rice and beans were extra $1 each for a 4oz cup. the beans were missing something.
i had a beef barrito “estylo enchillad” (extra $2) which was ok. they do not place a basket of chips with salsa on the table but do include a few with the meal, you had to go and get your own salsa.
my panamanian girlfriend suggest the next time we want mexican, patio mexicano in el congrejo around via argentina. i’ll give that a try when i’m down there for christmas and let you know.
bob
I am not in PC often, but a great Mexican food restaurant always has a change of getting me to try it.
Thanks for dropping in.I will remember to forget the one at Allbrook.
In my humble opinion, you should skip El Patio. We’re from CA and NM and tried it. UGGGGGHHHHH. It’s not even as good as some of the bad gringo chains in the US. There’s a new Yahoo group (yep, another one!) that’s devoted to eating in Panama: panama-restaurants, where there is a discussion of Mexican restaurants in PC.
Hi Wendy. I never go out to eat much when I am in PC, but if I knew of an exceptional Mexican restaurant, I might make the effort. My next trip to PC I will go to YOYtec computer store. I have to keep my priorities straight.
Don,
Unfortunately, those who complain about their circumstances will complain regardless of where they live. I try to avoid the negative people I encounter because they cloud my life with negativity and pessimism. When living in Nicaragua, I found that it was best to avoid the complaining gringos because the ones who complained the loudest were basically unhappy with their own lives and were trying to escape from something.
It is sad to say, but there were very few gringos living in Nicaragua that I wanted to befriend. My husband and I lived in a tiny community called La Paloma on Ometepe Island. We were the only gringos, and we immersed ourselves in the community. Even though our Spanish was less than ideal and many aspects of our lives remained a mystery, due to our misinterrpretation of the language, we created strong, loving bonds with the locals.
It is my opinion that any gringo moving to a foreign country should be required to volunteer, in some small way, in their local community. In providing a service to others, one does not have the inclination to complain. It brings a new perspective to one’s life and enables one to truly appreciate the gifts life has to offer.
Hi Debbie,,Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment. You raise some good points. If we can’t be happy with ourselves, we will find it difficult to be happy with other things.
They say that misery loves company and I guess they are just trying to find happiness in making others miserable.