Comments on: Panama Private Pension Pensionado Age Change??

By: king solomon

king solomon — Sun, 19 Aug 2007 06:12:58 +0000

At last, after so much real estate rose-colored biased articles about Panama, Escape from America has published a really good piece about what’s really going on in Panama! A must read!

http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/94/art_Panama_City_Beyond_The_Myth.html

By: Don Ray

Don Ray — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:48:44 +0000

Doug - I am sure that Panama is going to be lucky to have you and your wife here.

By: Doug Herbert

Doug Herbert — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 05:54:00 +0000

Sylvain,
I totally agree with you regarding the ‘affluent ones’ that can play with money as they wish, and probably do nothing to enrich the country they are in. I have read enough on other sites to show me that some, if not most, of those coming to Panama want to make it the U.S. or another such country. This is where I think the govt. is making their mistake. In giving ANY sort of visa to foreigners, maybe a forced guarantee of residence is in order. I do not agree with the come and go methods that some use to stay in Panama, or any other country. They are just dodging having to pay taxes. I am more than happy to pay for what I own in Panama, just as I do here in Edmonton. Why should there be a difference? Our plans are to take part in the community we live in just as we do here. Our Spanish is lacking, but we are both taking courses to improve it.
It looks like for us to stay, we will probably have to do the ‘Reforestation’ thing, although it seems a very scary venture at best. One way or another, we will make Panama our home, simply because it is where we want to be..

By: Stephan Schwab

Stephan Schwab — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:54:40 +0000

Trackbacks don’t seem to work. Here is the URL of my post on my own blog with a few additional thoughts: http://www.stephan-schwab.com/2007/06/08/1181339152453.html

By: Sylvain Duford

Sylvain Duford — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:23:25 +0000

Stephan, I pretty much agree with everything you said. But I still don’t think the government would be doing the wrong thing by re-focussing the Pensionado program towards its orginal intent.

One more avenue for people to come in, if they want to participate in the local economy, is to take advantage of the small-business program.

And BTW, most of the rich gringos in the Island of “rich” that is Altos del Maria employ mutliple gardeners, maids, construction workers and other workers from the local area. Most of these people never had a job before. Many of the gringos also provide other services to the community by provinding things like free basic health care, pet care, construction materials, school uniforms, books, and even support of the local orphanage.

By: Stephan Schwab

Stephan Schwab — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:25:34 +0000

Sylvain, there are a few more aspects to look at. Very wealthy people may make that 200K deposit to simply buy their visa (essentially that’s it), buy a huge property and employ a few servants, but apart from that the impact of their presence to the local economy is probably not noteable. Countries like Panama do not lack money. They do lack knowledge. Those with money seldom participate in ventures where knowledge transfer takes place. Why should they? Skilled professionals are much more valuable to the local economy. But nobody in their right mind would even consider trying to set up something when a lot of red tape increases the risk. This is a developing country, the local market is very small, almost everything has to be imported and the only resource that is cheap is the people. How many Europeans or Americans will want to work 48 hours a week for less than $600 monthly to beef up a pension or actually make a living? They should be grateful for all and every influx of foreign knowledge to grow the local economy and eventually become able to export sophisticated products. A lot of entrepreneurs start as part of the “informal economy” and all these regulations keep exactly those persons out. In harsh words these and probably other changes may provide the path to Disneyland style islands for rich foreigners and create grief, envy and anger amonst the locals. But probably the “huega vivo” culture has the upper hand in this case and a short-term gain is more important than everything else.

By: Sylvain Duford

Sylvain Duford — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:13:04 +0000

Doug, I have it on very good authority that the 65 year old rule change is not true.

BTW, I am also Canadian and about your age and I also know that my job is killing me and I plan to retire soon (in two years in fact, at age 50). We are lucky that my wife and I both took early retirement packages from the military in 1995 and we both have small pensions that qualify us for the Pensionado visa.

But even if the Government did change the rule to 65 for non-government pension, I think that would not be a bad thing (except for a few exceptions like yourself of course). Such a rule change would be aimed at two types of people.

The first is those who come here at a relatively young age under the Pensionado program, but with the intention to work here to supplement their revenu. They go against the spirit of the whole pensionado discounts and tax advantages which were designed for retirees, whether Panamanians or foreigners.

The second would be those who have enough money to create their own pension and come here at an early age. Those folks really have enough money to come in under the Reforestation ($40K) program, or the person of means ($200K including your house) program, both of which are more beneficial to the country than the Pensionado program.

So while I understand the predicament it would put you under, I fail to see how such a change would equate to the government shooting themselves in the foot.

By: Doug Herbert

Doug Herbert — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:38:10 +0000

You are right Don. Each day we are this earth is a lifetime. Just have to make everyone count.

By: Don Ray

Don Ray — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:32:32 +0000

You have all the time in the world Doug! Poco a poco y dia a dia. Keep the faith my friend.

By: Doug Herbert

Doug Herbert — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:26:35 +0000

Don,
I certainly have, and if all this stays the way it is, that will probably be our only recourse. I just hope I have the years left to wait.