More 30 Day Visa Questions
Jun 6th, 2007 by Don Ray
Knowns and unknowns about the new 30-day visa law continue to to be raised on the Panama Yahoo groups. One thing that I think most people have heard now is that when your 30-day visa expires you must return to your “country of origin” before you can return to Panama.
So for example, if you are a US citizen and you travel to Panama, you can stay 30 days plus a possible extension and then you will need to return to the US before you return to Panama. You can not go to Costa Rica for 72 hours and then return to Panama.
That definitely increases the cost of spending all your time in Panama if previously you just went to Costa Rica for 72 hours and then returned.
One thing I don’t know is what happens if you come to Panama and decide to take a 4-day trip to Costa Rica. What is the status of your original 30-day visa. Did it end when you left for Costa Rica? In other words, can you leave and re-enter Panama? If you can return for the balance of 30 days, is it still eligible to be extended for 30 to 60 more days?
There seems to be a lot of combinations, that I don’t yet understand. I am listing these questions because I am receiving several emails and I don’t know the answer.
I know that there are many people that have entered Panama under the old permanent tourist visa with the plans of getting other permanent visas. One visa I have heard of was an agricultural visa. I have heard from others that have talked to their lawyers and their lawyers have told them that they have submitted many for this type of visa and never have had one accepted. Is there anyone you know of that is living in Panama that received one of these visas?
This visa change is the kiss of death for people considering living or currently living as a “snowbird” in Panama. While I don’t have a problem with Panama wanting to tighten their border control, there are several things about the current implementation that will need to be tweaked for it not to have a negative effect economically on Panama. When the economic effect is understood lets hope that intelligent legislation will follow.
I have reread this post and know that it is poorly written and hard to understand, but since it is about the current 30-day visa law, maybe it is fitting.
UPDATE: The rumor about returning to the “Country of Origin” has been identified as being false. The law just says that a person must leave Panama for 72 hours. However the implication is that Panama does not want this to be something that happens over and over again. It appears that this is another of those judgemental things that is up to the border passport inspector to decide if he will let you in or not.
Don Ray,
It’d be nice to have a full time (competent) attorney on your staff, wouldn’t it? I am just joking, of course, but even a legal professional would have to be doing a Linda Blair head spin at this point.
One interesting question I have is this: If I hold a US passport, stay in Panama for 30 days straight and then leave.. I MUST now travel to the US because I hold that passport? Or jet to the EU? Antarctica? I guess that is your interpretation as well. No more weekend in CR? Fly to Miami, Houston only? No Nicaragua? Dominican Republic? Only a trip to the US will do?
Man, if that is the case I don’t know what to say! It’s a long drive from here to Brownsville and those gas prices!! Someone is either asleep at the wheel or much worse..
Mildly Confused & Dismayed,
KK
PS.
I meant jet to the EU (if you hold an EU passport), or, for example, fly back to Antarctica if that’s your domicile.. just clarifying the above post..
Hi KK. I assume that at the end of your 30-day visa you may be able to leave by way of Costa Rica, but you can’t return to Panama from Costa Rica without having been back to the US. I hadn’t even thought of the question of does your ticket leaving Panama have to be to the US. Surely this can’t be this complicated.
Don,
In talking with our lawyer in David, it seems like in our case, we are royally screwed. unless we do something up here totally against the law, to obtain an ‘official’ pension, then apply for pensionado status, we have no way of living in Panama, even though we own a home there. We were also told that from one pensionado visa refusal 3 months ago, now there have been more than 50 denied. I really wonder what the Govt. is thinking here. Am I willing to put $200,000 in a Panama bank for 5 years without the possibility of touching it, to get the only other visa I think we could get? Uh Uh…that takes away a large chunk of what we have to retire on.
I really don’t understand their thinking. Are we going to be on their welfare system, if they have one(haven’t even thought about if they do or don’t have one). How can we be of detriment to the economy? It seems as if they are looking for the multi-million dollar investment money now, and no ‘real people’ to help populate and stimulate the economy. I love almost everything I have found in Panama, and have no intention of trying to find some of Canada in it, that is why I want to retire there. It is beyond my comprehension as to why they are doing this. For a country trying to move a way from the third world status, they have just shot themselves in the foot. I hope this is not a sign for the release of you know who.
Doug - I am sorry that your conversation with your lawyer went the way it sounds. One can only hope that cooler heads will prevail and more intelligent administration of the visas will come about.
I am very confused, does all this mean that I will not be able to retire in Panama, do I have to deposit $200.00.00 in a bank in Panama to be eligible to live there.
Well that certainly would be one way. However, it would be a way that I thought long and hard about before I did it. I would want any money or property I might own in Panama to have the ability to pass on to my heirs in the case of my death.
It is my understanding that money in single name bank accounts become the property of the bank in the event of the account holder’s death. I am not sure but what that may be the case with with the $200,000 you would invest as stated above.
If a person has a pension from the US government or a another well established pension, then the pensionado visa should be an option. For people with just money in accounts around the world, things are now more difficult. These are questions that you have to discuss with a good lawyer. I think the lawyers are going to be making a lot more money now.
Don,
If I understand your reply , My husband and I both receive social security from the US goverment does that make us eligible for the pensionado visa? What happens with a home you purchase in case of death can you leave it to you children?
My husband and I are planning on comming to Panama in August to look for a home, are we wsting our time?
Thank you for your time and patience , I am looking forward to meeting you when we are in panama.
Keep up the great work
Caryl, Things can always change, but the pensionado visa backed by the pension from the US government has always been the easiest one to obtain. I still enjoy everything about Panama and for others that enjoy it, I think it is a great place to be.
There are ways to protect ones property so that it will be passed on following ones death. When you purchase a home make sure the lawyer knows that you want to protect your asset for your children.
Shameless marketing. I am a resident because i married into the Panamanian culture. For those that are not lucky enough to be bitten by the Latino love bug or of age to qualify for the pension visa, there is another option. My sister moved to Panama last year and got residency through a forestry visa. This is the cheapest way to get an investors visa and the only way to truly give back to this country in a positive manner. Reforestation brings money to the rural areas of Panama where it is desperately needed. The Panamanian campo absolutely does not see a piece of the real estate boom pie that the city and the upper class of Panama are enjoying right now.
With a $40,000 investment in a visa package from Futuro Forestal (http://www.futuroforestal.com) you then present the documents and title of ownership and the normal bureaucracy begins to register residency status. But from that moment on, you are given temporary documents and absolutely legal to stay. We could not have been happier with this investment as my sister and I are now reunited and working together but we feel like we own something lovely in Panama at the same time, offsetting our lifelong carbon emissions and helping the people of Panama. AND my future nieces and nephews will come into a lucrative college fund when the forest is harvested in 25 years!!
Hmm,
Reforestation,, We looked into that and felt the deal shady at best. Even while travelling the back roads of Las Lajas, we were offered “side deals” to make the whole thing more appealing. We backed off right away. 25 years is along time to wait for return (Yes,,, YES I understand they ‘trim’ the trees before that but….
Oh well, If you have to throw 40K down for residency status, consider it a ‘no strings’ gift to the overlords here and you won’t lose any sleep over it.
KK
I would like to hear more from you why you felt the deal “shady” and I am very happy to answer questions and concerns publicly. We are one of the most experienced reforestation companies in Panama and Latin America, are certified by the Forest Stewardship Council and CCBA, and have been voted “Best Forest Investment in Latin America” by the Dutch Rating Agency SICIREC. We have tight strings to the Yale University, to the Smithsonian Tropical Institute and to the Worldbank, Organizations who would certainly not work with us if we wouldn’t survive their tough due diligence.
Our reforestation program is the most ecological in Panama (multiculture with native species) and our ecological and social approach has brought us the Metafore Innovation Award for improved social, financial and ecological results. Metafore is backed up by prestigious organizations such as Bank of America and Toyota.
We certainly don’t offer “side deals” and all our company information is public to our investors. I am sure I can give answers to all your concerns but would ask you not to make public accusations you cannot back up. Should any of our employees have tried to offer “shade side deals” we would take action right away because this definitely is not our philosophy. Thank you!
Petra Kollmannsberger
Futuro Forestal
Hi Petra - Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment. Personally I have always thought the reforestation visa was a good way to go if one could afford it. You are definitely helping Panama in an environmental way and the world needs more of that.
KK will have to respond to his comment.
Petra,
I am sorry if I offended you. My comment was not a personal barb and I am sure you did not take it that way, just want make that clear. Anyhow, for us, the idea of handing over $40,000 (or $80,000 for the super duper reforestation program) left too much to chance due to the fact that the any ‘return’ was so far out into the future (our opinion only) and we simply weren’t ready to make that commitment.
We felt that your operation itself (forest management, organic composting etc) seemed very efficient & well organized.
The ’shady’ comment was directed at the financial end of it and again, this was my personal opinion of same.
I hope that you are successful in your endeavors and the trees are growing well.
Perhaps this program will work well for some seeking residency status in Panama. Your business should become more robust since the government’s recent tightening of tourist visa status forces the issue.
Best Regards,
KK