Interesting Conversation
Nov 11th, 2006 by Don Ray
Today I had an interesting conversation with a resident of the Boquete area. I know I see Boquete pretty infrequently, but it seems that the influx of gringos is not having a positive effect on the area.
From the conversation, I understand that the prices in the Hibiscus restaurant are climbing at an unbelievable rate. When I was there, I thought that the quality and consistency left a little to be desired and with the prices I understood today, I am not missing anything there.
I also learned that if you eat at the Machu Picchu Peruvian restaurant, they include the tip on your bill without identifying that it is there. Besides being deceptive, I think it is illegal. I would think that many visitors from the US might not notice it and leave another tip. I have therefore removed it off my “to try” restaurant list. The next time I go to Mar Del Sur in David, I will have to watch and see if they also are including the tip. If they are, they will no longer be on my restaurant list.
The other disturbing thing I heard is that a lot of the new residents keep using phrases such as “Well, we do it this way in the US.’ Personally, I wish that those that want to come here and turn Panama into pockets of US suburbs would have an accident on one of their trips to or from David.
While Panama is not perfect by any means, trying to force American culture down the Panamanians’ throats is not the answer. I think it is far better to learn more about their culture and accept what is good here. I did not come here to live in an American subculture. The best thing I have found about Panama has been the people. I would not want to do anything to change that part of Panama and I am afraid that a lot of Americans moving here want to do just that.
I can relate…the same thing is happening here in Wyoming all the Californians leave there screwed up state and impose all there wacky Ideas on us locals born and raise here, by taking over every political office we have. They love to say the same thing, Well this is the way its done in California! They love our state because if your a Political Junky, it’s got to be one of the cheapest states to get elected in. There ought to be a law that you can’t run for “ANY” office unless you have been a resident for at least 10 years! That would keep the carpet baggers out! I understand what your saying, I was in San Jose, Costa Rica at a busy plaza downtown when a missionary lady from the states started a conversation with me about how she was outraged by the dressing of the young latin women…too much skin and how she and her clan where trying to (educate) the evils of dress to the un-educated Tica females! I told the lady: Its because of people like you is why American’s are hated around the world! I told her to mind her own business!
You wrote:
“it seems that the influx of gringos is not having a positive effect on the area.”
I’m sure that sentiment has been echoed a number of times (with good reason, or should I say “Just Cause”) by the indigenous people of both North and South America.
I do fervently hope that Chiriqui is not terribly spoiled before I even get a chance to experience it.
SE, I have to admit that I look at Americans through a different pair of eyes since I moved here. When I see some braggadocios gringos thumping their chests and trying to impress others, and it just makes me want to puke.
Lynda I am sure that there will be a lot of Panama that remains relatively unspoiled.
I am not seeing a major cultural change happeninghere in David. The modernization here seems to be being well accepted by all.
I believe in: “When in Rome… DO what the Romans do”!
Works for me.
I have nothing against progress, fact of the matter is.. allot of American business practices ACTUALLY work! (better, faster cheaper for consumers) It’s the American Government that DOESN’T!
The problem here as i see it is that the developers are here to make a buck off other gringos moving here.
>Thats what I hope to do…but I prefer to call it a new “opportunity”. I enjoy trying to make a buck, Trump calls it the Art of the Deal. I call it the Thrill of the Deal. A “RUSH”. I want to see if I can put together a deal in Panama myself…but has nothing to do with real estate. Has nothing to do with MONEY either. Has nothing to with Panama Culture. I just want to see if my idea’s WORK. . Fulfilling a need and having it become successfully is an adrenaline rush to me! I want a new mountain to Climb!
Those are some of the many reasons we elected not to buy land in Boquete. It’s a very nice area, but I don’t like what’s happening to it and I’m pretty sure that 5 or 10 years from now it will have turned into “little America”.
I was dismayed by the fast and uncontrolled development happening here. I think it will lose most of its natural beauty and charm.
Good luck SE.
Sylvain, there are still areas in Boquete where you can buy property that will not be contaminated by large developers and you will still be able to live in nature. Fewer now than before. You just have to stay from real estate agents and get out and look.
I totally agree, Don Ray. On our first trip to Boquete, the first thing that we saw when entering the town was the huge “Rhino” sign advertising Real Estate. It turned us off immediately. We walked around town and stopped to eat in a restaurant that was full of expat gringos. We overheard one man talking about fishing, so we said, “Excuse me, but we couldn’t help but hear your conversation about fishing. We would love to know more about fishing in this area.” He rudely turned to us and responded, “I wasn’t talking to you.” Well, that set the tone for our investigation of Boquete as a place to retire. I would never want to be a part of their ‘exclusive, rude group.’ On the bus back to David, I noticed the bus stops and poles were spray painted with Spanish phrases such as “Gringo go home” and “Give our land back”. We left Boquete feeling disgusted and ashamed to call ourselves North Americans. I don’t ever want to be associated with a group of expats who don’t want to learn Spanish, who don’t take the time to understand the local customs, and who isolate themselves from the culture.
I would like to see an expat group that would become involved with their local community in projects that will benefit their community.
I noticed that you posted the “Gringos in David” monthly meetings. What does the group do? Are they involved in local community projects? There is so much that we could do to help our local communities. Expats living abroad have the education, the skills, and the financial resources to do some wonderful projects.
I am an activist. Instead of complaining about the greedy expat gringos and their need to isolate themselves from the culture(why did they move there to begin with?) let’s actively pursue ways to become involved with our communities, through educational projects, volunteering our skills and time to help others, and pursuing altruistic avenues. There is so much we could do.
Don Ray, you are a wonderful example. You are striving to learn more about David and the local community. You take the time to talk to the local people, advertise their businesses, and participate in the local customs. Thank you for all that you represent.
OK…I’m done ranting now. I could go on and on about this subject. When living in Nicaragua, I finally disassociated myself from most of the expats. I abhorred their self-righteous attitudes, their greed, their lack of respect for the local customs…almost everything about them. I was tired of the nicknames of the gringo bars like “Pedophile Perch”, the disrespectful jokes (The best form of Nicaraguan birth control is running into a Nica pedestrian with your car.) the drunkenness, the greed, the lack of understanding and human compassion. OK…I’d better stop now. My blood pressure is rising.
Now lower your blood pressure Debbie. I didn’t realize I was going to knock down a hornets nest.
In all fairness, I have met a lot of nice and friendly Americans that have or are in the process of moving here and have respect for their Panamanian hosts.
The David Yahoo meeting are more of a get together than a meeting. Meeting implies agenda and purpose other than socializing. I think Shirley formed this group because she felt a need to talk to other foreigners living here. This get together is merely for the purpose of having something to eat and drink and some friendly conversation.
The agenda is no agenda.
Thanks Don- Oh I totally agree on the rudeness of Gringos…The ONLY bad experience I had in Costa Rica was with another American! I believe that some of these people think because your in a Latin American country that, therefore you are running from the Law, or are desperate in some way, or have a pocket FULL of cash burning a hole in your pocket and they have this “attitude” of superiority over you, that you won’t get by here with out help from them! These Gringos kind of remind me of the “Coyotes” that smuggle the illegal Mexican into the USA, preying on there own!
My only caution is extremes. All gringos are not good and all are not bad. All Panamanians are not good and all are not bad.
There is no place in the world that is perfect. It is our responsibility to insure that where we chose to live doesn’t get worse because of our actions.
dear don
reading your blog about “ugly norte americanos” had my blood pressure rising but debbie’s posting had me laughing because the panamanians are a gentle kind an lovely people! they are also friendly and shy. more likly to “commit random acts of kindness”. deb you need a vacation in panama with the panamanians take a spanish course in panama.
we do have a responsibility to help the keepers of this lovely country but again in their polite, formal, respectful,shy manner.
gosh am i missing david and davidians!
thank you don keep up the good work. ellen in ga.(new england transplant wish i were a panamanian transplant)
Thanks for leaving a comment Ellen.
As Antony said at Ceasar’s death, “The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones.”
I hope that we that move here are remembered for being compassionate and not for destroying a hidden paradise.
Hi Don Ray, I am saddened to hear that the inevitable is taking place in Boquete. Years ago when the “Hidden Valley” project started, Nena and I knew it would only be a short time before her hometown would change. Nena has been a US citizen for 21 years now and still retains ALL of her Panamainian culture but she doesn’t waste time trying to convert “gringoes” to a Spanish lifestyle! haha I spend my visits to Panama doing home improvement projects for the family but beyond that the system they have there works fine.
It reminds me of the joke where the gringo is talking to the native fisherman. The fisherman works until noon, has lunch, and spends the afternoon playing with the kids. The gringo tries to convince him to work longer, buy more boats, hire workers, and be successful. The fisherman asks what would he do then? The gringo says, “work harder, retire early so you can spend more time with the family”. The fisherman replies, “I’m doing that NOW”!! haha
jim
jimandnena4@gmail.com
>Just something to think about: I wonder if the Native Indians said the very same thing when the Spanish over run the entire Hemisphere a few centuries back? Things change get used to it. I say “You must either BEND or BREAK”
Yes, I am living in a very peaceful and beautiful environment here with little stress. The only thing I am missing is the ability to spend more time with my family in the US.
But if I were in the US, I would have stress back on my shoulders and no money to enjoy the family. Life is sometimes the lessor of two evils.
SE, I agree with you that change is inevitable. However the bad things that will happen culturally here will not be as a result of the developers that are here for the quick buck and will leave, but from the new immigrants that are here permanently or part time in their vacation home.
It is the latter that will have the most influence on how the change is perceived. If they use the “I want what I want when I want it and how I want it” then the change will not have fared well for their hosts.
Hi Don,
Appreciate your post and all the replies and comments. As you and I have lived in Boquete several years ago,we have noticed the change on our visits. Five of our children, my wife Aris and her children are Panamanian, live there, so we get almost daily updates of the “Gringo” influx.From what we are hearing this is causing rising cost of living for the locals, loss of their uniqueness and a lot of sadness. Panamanians are a proud and friendly peoples. Boquete is the only place outside of Panama City to my knowledge that has become ” USA Boquete ” What a shame. My heart cries for the locals. We are happy to be living among the locals, being accepted and enjoying the tranquility, customs and traditions of Guadalupe in Cerro Punta. There are many wise and fine ex pats living throughout Panama having made the choise of “In Panama, do as the Panamanians!” Good job on your blog and sharing Panama with the world.
Hi Jerry. Thanks for sharing your experience. There are still unspoiled areas of Boquete, but they are getting harder to find.
Some thoughts. Boquete is still beautiful. And, no matter how honorable our intentions, those of us who move here impart some of our culture upon the local people. We dress different, we tip, we drive better cars, etc. I too hope things stay the same, but the “gringos” that are already in Panama don’t get to decide when to close the gate. There are generally two types of people moving to Boquete, the retirees that want the gate closed (after they get in) and the people trying to make a profit who want the gate left open and widened. Now that we have our place, I too wish time would stand still in Boquete. The reality is that when we get fed up, I guess we’ll look elsewhere. We did not have the ability to retire immediately and move, that’s why a gated development works for us. We are only able to be there a small part of the year. The rest of the time we are envious of those that get to stay.
As for Hibiscus, don’t cross it off your list yet. Three weeks ago we had the “dinner for 2″. $38 (w/o jubliado) filet mignon, chicken cordon bleu, 2 app, 2 desserts. I think the food is great. Admittedly my taste buds are still Americanized. I know the owner is having a bit of trouble making ends meet in the slow season and with the landlord. I think its worth another try.
Greg
Hi Greg. Thanks for chipping in. Yes Boquete is still beautiful. I have lived here for almost four year. I think I dress the same as most of the locals. Of course I lost 50 pounds before I moved and had to buy all new clothes and bought them here. I bought clothes that are necessary to live in a tropical environment.
I tip but all of the Panamanians I know tip also when they go to certain restaurants. I don’t think they tip more than 10% and I don’t either, because to do so would disturb the accepted culture here.
I know many Panamanians that drive a better car than I do. One has to be careful when one makes absolute statements.
I don’t think I have heard anyone say anything about closing the gate and not allowing any more gringos in. I certainly haven’t and would not want it.
There is nothing wrong with “gated communities” per se. I totally understand the perceived security that one may think he has by living in such a location. However, if a person thinks he is totally free from worry because he lives in such a community, he may wake up one morning very surprised.
Here is an example of the types of problems that are happening to the common Panamanian. Today I heard of an individual that has a verbal agreement with a landowner to purchase a small portion of land. The plan was sometime in the future to build a small house. The individual had been paying for this piece of property for over three years. A gringo came here and wanted to buy the land. The landowner sold it all to the gringo and returned what had been paid to the Panamanian.
Now you may, so what is the problem? The person got the money back. Well let’s assume that the individual was buying the land for $6 a meter and was buying 1000 meters. Let’s assume that the landowner received $45 per meter from the gringo. The difference in this 1000 meters would be $39,000. Now the right thing for the landowner would have been to share in the gain with the person he had a legal contract with.
Greed has an effect on all Panamanians. You may say, it is not the gringo’s problem how the landowner handled the transaction with his personal contract. It is likely that the gringo knew about the small amount of land and thought, I don’t want a small house next to my property. It would not have hurt for the gringo to suggest that the third party receive a portion of the profit.
You can say that if it gets too bad, you may decide to just move somewhere else. I doubt that many of the displaced Panamanians have the same luxury.
My point is that it would be good if more consideration were given to the overall effect that an individual causes because he moves to Panama. Maybe he would smile more at the locals. Maybe he would give more effort to learning the language. Maybe he would think that some of the changes that need to be made are by himself and not solely by the locals.
Related to the Hibiscus, you hit on one of the problems. The person that runs the restaurant must not be the landlord. The landlord sees that more gringos are moving in and he wants more of his share of the wealth. He therefore increases the rent. The restaurant owner is the one in the squeeze. Now you may say, well that is free enterprise for you. Does this free enterprise benefit many of the locals? I will bet you money that all employees of the restaurant make minimum wage. Not many of the locals can consider eating there. I bet the locals could care less if it stayed in business or not.
In summary, my objection is not with anyone moving to Panama. My objection is for a person to move to Panama and think that only the Panamanian’s have the need to change.
Forgive me Don Ray…I just thought this would be so appropriate here. I wrote it while living in Nicaragua. I hope you don’t mind me sharing it.
You Know You’re a Gringo When…
January 9, 2005
… you don’t ask “ How much does it cost?”
… you boil your water before you drink it.
… you take a tab of Dramamine to go grocery shopping in Rivas
…your refrigerator is full of peanut butter and grape jelly
… you have a refrigerator
… you throw away leftovers
… you wear white socks to the black sand beach
… you throw your toilet paper in the toilet
… you gather wood for a camp fire and whittle sticks to roast marshmallows
… you ask, “Where’s the dump?” or “When do they pick up your garbage?”
… you tip toe around the animal manure all over the roads
… you wear underwear and a bra in the tropics
… your skin starts peeling from heavy applications of Deet
… squealing pigs disturb your sleep at 5 am
… the sight of an AK-47 scares you
… you inspect your bowel movements with binoculars and a flashlight for signs of worms
… you have binoculars and a flashlight
… you resort to reading an Awake magazine given to you by a Jehovah Witness tourist because it’s in English.
… eating fish heads appall you
… you refuse to eat one more bite of greasy tasteless gallo pinto
… you have spices in your kitchen and you actually use them
… you heat water to wash your clothes, your dishes, and your body, that is, when you have running water
… you think hot water sanitizes and cleans everything
… you ask ridiculous questions like, “Where is the water treatment plant?” or “Do you recycle plastic bags?”
… it takes you all day to scrub one pair of filthy dirty socks
… you catch fish with a fishing pole… just for fun
… you have an electronic fish finder
… you’re frustrated with daily power outages
… you ask, “Why don’t they do it this way? It would save a lot of time.”
… you wear a wrist watch to bed
… you can’t understand why they eat green plantains
… you think flip-flops are only for the beach
… you think words such as stability and accountability are synonymous with a government
… you think a pay-off is your last mortgage payment
… you think you need a prescription for drugs
… you wonder if OSHA regulates the kitchens of the street vendors and USDA inspects the fly infested meat hanging in the markets
… you miss the weather report, hot and sunny, or hot and rainy isn’t very interesting.
… it’s Sunday and all you want to do is read a big fat Sunday paper at the Waffle House
… you wonder “Where’s my mailbox?”
… you ask directions in Managua expecting street names and numbers
… you use words like, text me and IM me.
… when you ask weather related questions like “When’s the wind going to stop?” or “When’s the rain going to stop?”
… you think a machete is used only for hacking down coconuts
… you’re amused at what’s written on all the Goodwill t-shirts worn in Nicaragua because you can read them.
… you miss your dishwasher, washing machine, high speed internet connection, and lawnmower more than your family
… you spend $1,000 to have your dog’s leg mended in the USA and you don’t give it a second thought
… you consider your dog to be a member of your family
… you ask, “What do you mean by ‘gringo prices’?
… you wonder if there is an emergency broadcasting system for a hurricane or the eruption of active Vulcan Concepcion
… you wonder what happens if you dial 911
…you ask your neighbor, “Where is your smoke detector?”
… you’re the only house in the neighborhood with guidebooks and maps of Nicaragua plastered on your walls
… you’ve never been stung by a scorpion or experienced a numb tongue as a result
… you think a gusano is a very pretty, defenseless caterpillar
… you’re enchanted by the beauty and at the same time, disgusted by the litter
… you think the word ‘adios’ means goodbye
… you’re surprised by how many people one bicycle can carry and dumbfounded at the sight of a woman nursing her baby while sitting on the steel carrier at the rear of the bike.
… you’ve missed the last bus home, it’s dark, and you’re afraid to ride in the back of an old pickup truck loaded with people because you might get dirty
… a pig runs through the middle of a high school graduation ceremony and you wonder why no one laughs
… two bony dogs are copulating in the middle of main street and you wonder why no one notices
… your family wants to know what to send you for Christmas, and you ask for mouse traps, a squeegee mop, and books… any kind, as long as they’re in English
… you tell Nicaraguans, “I’m an American.”
… you pinch your nose shut at the toxic smell of burning plastic
… you think the Laundromat is actually a building with washing machines and dryers
… you find yourself buying things because they’re so cheap, not because you need them
… you have no understanding of ‘crimes of opportunity’
… you have a garden because you like green vegetables and you eat lettuce with your salad.
… you’ve never seen a skinny pig before
… you wonder why they call the old school buses ‘chicken buses’ and you think they take the kids to school
… you thought a traffic jam consisted of cars, not a herd of cattle with forked sticks protruding from their necks, sixteen piglets chasing swaying titties, horses, or scavenging dogs
… you teach the old begging woman sitting in front of Pali grocery store how to pronounce ‘ I nee moonies” correctly instead of giving her a few pesos
… the repetitive thumping thing they call music is too loud and too annoying
… you thought fire works were only for the Fourth of July and the deafening explosions were always accompanied by displays of twinkling, colored lights
… you use candles as a decorative, romantic touch in your house
… you think every Nicaraguan hated Somoza’s 46 year reign of abusive power
… you think the word ‘petroglyph’ is the Spanish name for gasoline
… you think papayas are small, expensive fruits
… you miss the Super bowl and Sunday football games on TV
… you laugh at their silly superstitions, and make fun of the monkey ladies, the duendes, and the Chupa Cabra
… you pity the islanders for enduring poverty, destitution, earthquakes, and war
… you think there is hopelessness in their lives
… you isolate yourself from their culture
… you refuse to speak their language
… you think everyone should learn English
… you think the American way is the answer to everything.
… you surround yourself with other gringos because it’s familiar and comfortable
… you buy all their land and post no trespassing signs along the border
… you perpetuate the fallacy that all gringos are rich
You know you’re really a gringo when….
you assume…anything
you take for granted…everything
and you learn nothing about yourself after living on a primitive island, in the middle of a huge lake, in the middle of Nicaragua, in the middle of Central America.
Well I can tell you from experience that it is possible to become less of a gringo or gringa.
I agree Don, we should be the ones to make the effort to fit in. We would not have a place in Panama had we not wanted to experience and immerse ourselves in another culture. I hope that we can be some of the good guys that tread lightly through this beautiful country. In all honesty though, the somewhat Americanized infrastructure (not just in Boquete, but roads, healthcare, currency, etc) has made the decision about relocating to Panama easier. Sorry if some statements came across as absolutes, I know better, and they are not intended to be. I do believe that it will take the Panamanian officials to regulate the growth and assure that the Panamanian people benefit from it. Elected officials often disappoint.
Your last sentence is an understatement and certainly not limited to Panama.
We live in Boquete, been here three months and we do love the place. Boquete is more expensive cross the board; that is an issue but compared to what we left in the US it is still a bargain and David is just down the road.
There are too many Expats with the attitude of terraforming Panama into the US. We came here to get away from the stress, toxic food and milignant attitudes of the the States. I hope people wake up and realize that this in Panama not Panama City, Florida. Folks leave your stress and stress filled ways at the border.
Well put and welcome to Panama!
Actually some things in Boquete can be changed and gringoized more. Many locals will not drink the water. There is, I have been told a high usage of pesticides in the Cerro Punta area, not sure about Boquete. There still is a major problem with unspayed roaming dogs and cats. The schools here need help bad. My ngobe ex girlfriend (now my amiga) would fare much better in the US using her university education and face far less discrimination.
The suicide rate is 50% higher here and in Costa Rica vs the US.
And you propose to do what?
Actually my response was to give perspective to not all things gringo are bad. I am not proposing anything. I suppose supporting improving the above items that need attention are a start, but that is really an individual choice.
Well unless life is better for the average Panamanian because of the influx of people from other parts of the world, then I guess it remains to be seen.
I assume you are implying that some Panamanian will not drink the water because of pesticides. I guess if more gringos come and turn farm land into housing developments, then that would cut down on the need for pesticides. Where the cheap food produce will come from then, I do not know.
For the schools to improve, there has to be an interest in families with school age children doing something. Most of the gringos that come are retirees and are not interested in children. While they can donate time and money, will they or will they just want a pretty retirement home and want to complain about conditions that affect them?
I haven’t see race discrimination here and I still see a fair amount of that in the US. Is your girlfriend discriminated against because of her education? I haven’t seen discrimination here because of education either. I have seen that there are few jobs for educated Panamanians and doubt if it will help Panama to have more competition for existing jobs.
I do agree that there are more free running dogs and cats, but I am not sure how that is going to change unless someone wants to put on free clinics to spay and neuter them. There is a group that is doing that, but I don’t know how successful it is or how well received.
I am not sure how outsiders coming in will improve the suicide rate. Many suicides are caused by a person not seeing any way out of the situation he/she is in and there is a high usage of drugs here. I haven’t seen that gringos coming here is lowering the cost of living , removing drugs from the society, or making land cheaper for a common Panamanian to buy a piece of property in the future.
I think what you have done is to point out that that Panama is not perfect and that there are problems to be solved here. I just am not sure I see a association with removing these problems and Panama becoming Gringoized.
I have seen more gringos come here and complain that things are not the way they want then and want them changed with little thought to the effect on the average Panamanian. I have seen a few come and donate time and money and ask nothing in return, but they are in the definite minority.
Right on Don. I can not agree with your assesment more or express it any better! Keep up the good work.